So, a very warm welcome to Nigel Vaz, who has very kindly joined us for the next iteration of our CEO interview series. Nigel, thanks for joining us. It would be great if you could give us a quick introduction to yourself.
Thank you for having me, Philip. Hi, I'm Nigel Vaz. I'm CEO of Publicis Sapient, and my background has been in how technology affects business. So, looking forward to our conversation.
That's exactly the focus for our interview series, how technology affects business and leadership more specifically. So, I'm sure that we will have a lot to go through and learn from each other. So, let's start with the beginning, Nigel. I mean, it would be good just to give a sense of your journey as the CEO of Publicis Sapient at the moment in the last 24 months. A bit of background there would be helpful. Any initial thoughts?
Yeah, look, I think when you lead any business, especially a business like ours, which spends a lot of its focus advising companies on how to leverage technology to accelerate their transformation, the last two years have essentially been seminal for lots of different reasons that we know. While digital had always been gaining an importance in business over the last decade or so, I think the last two years it went from being important to being existential. So, it was this real shift that you saw. I talked to a lot of our teams about the fact that CEOs would essentially have us in their top 10 priorities. Now, we were the top one or two. And more importantly, every single aspect of how a business operated was being reimagined in a way customers could see it. So, how you drive growth, how you take cost out of the business, how you deliver better experiences to customers, how you thought about new products and services, all of those essentially were being reimagined in a meaningful way. And when you think about the last two years, a lot of businesses were forced into that in many instances because of operating environment that they just never imagined. If I were to just pick two or three examples to kind of illustrate, I was talking to the CEO of a luxury brand, and the conversation he was having with me is we have no contingency plan for every one of our businesses around the world, physical stores being shut at the same time. I mean, there's just not a contingency that you ever designed for. And for them, digital was important, like I said. But then when you have every single store in the world closed, it becomes existential. And so then you're forced to examine the question of how do you actually deliver luxury in the context of digital? What does luxury actually translate to in a way customer discovers a product, in a way they are educated about that product, in a way that they are essentially comfortable paying the significant premium? Because so much of how luxury is sold is through the people that sit behind those products. Another example of another CEO in industry, we're having a conversation just before the pandemic about automotives and cars. And we're having this conversation about how digital marketing is becoming more and more important in the automotive space and people were discovering cars through digital marketing. Then they would go on the manufacturer, the OEM's website and configure a car, potentially take that configuration to a dealership. But the dealership was a big part of that equation. And then when we started talking about, well, could we see a world where, you know, the car is discovered online, it's configured online, the test drive is booked online, the car is actually driven, and then the new car is actually delivered to them. So essentially an end to end digital experience to buy a car, which is the second largest purchase for most people after a house. You know, the answer was, well, there's 0% likelihood that, you know, a customer would do that. And over the course of that pandemic, the same company recorded 38% of sales, you know, end to end entirely digital. So just think about the kind of magnitude of that for an industry as big as automotive or, you know, in that other example. So that's, you know, that's something that we saw, you know, and that's the client perspective, right? When you then think about it for us as people, we had, you know, thousands and thousands of people around the world that we had to move into an entirely digital working environment almost overnight. You know, so we got 100% of our people up and running in, you know, with the ability to deliver, you know, work to our clients and work with each other. And again, like our clients, we went through our own transformation. You know, we had, of course, been working in a hybrid world for a long time with distributed teams and lots of, but, you know, do that 100% of the time and figure out how you maintain the culture, the connection. How do you create, you know, space for mental health and look to essentially make sure that all of these things happen whilst you are continuing to deliver was, you know, an extraordinarily challenging time from a CEO's perspective because I and we were all learning through this process, you know, of our own transformation, right? And then, of course, when you look at the markets, you know, the markets in the macroeconomic and geopolitical landscape, you know, over the last two years has been anything but stable. You know, we've seen inflation pick up, you know, pretty significantly. We've just dealt with and are still dealing with the biggest health crisis, certainly in my lifetime and maybe in my parents' lifetime. We're also dealing with, you know, lots of geopolitical, you know, stress, which we're experiencing right now with conflicts in places in the world that we've just never experienced for, you know, such a long time. So you put all of those things together and it makes for an extraordinarily, you know, complex market landscape because while the core opportunity for digital is unbelievably clear, the operating environment for a lot of businesses is not, you know, so the travel and hospitality sector, you know, was hit pretty significantly with COVID and they're barely getting out of it. And, you know, we're busy shutting down, you know, ports in the context of cruises and air, you know, air flight routes in the context of airlines. Banks are having to get to grips with lots of changes in banking regulations. So I guess that's a broad answer to your question, but, you know, hopefully covers, you know, some of the dimensions.
Some great examples there. Thank you, Nigel. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think to your point around the use of digital technologies to rethink what's possible has really shone through as part of a lot of our CEO interviews. We had one CEO talking about, the CEO of a train operator who talked about taking ownership of a new train completely digitally, never been done before. But now that's the only way they'll do it because of, you know, the improved efficiencies that came from that, just lower costs, a better customer experience as well. So you can see that coming through in a lot of the conversations. But I think also there's this sense of we're kind of emerging from this digital first hibernation, as I like to call it. And we're asking ourselves the questions, you know, what will stay, what will go, what will change? And it links to what you were describing in terms of everything being thrown upside down, our behavior, our habits also evolving. So will we go back to the office as much as we did, as we used to? Will we go to the shops? Will we go to the movies as much as we did? And those are all questions that I think we're all asking ourselves personally. But I think in the same way, CEOs are also trying to work through those same sets of questions. So in terms of what will stay, based on what you described, in terms of what you experienced over the last 24 months, anything that you really think, if you pick on one or two things that are going to be permanent, that have changed and now will be permanent moving forward?
Yeah, you know, I'll kind of give you a frame maybe, Philip, is how I think about that kind of change context, right? Because I think we often tend to look at change just in the context of technology. And for me, the idea of digital and what's happening in the world today is slightly broader than that. So in my book, I talk about four things, and we, of course, practice this with clients every day, right? But we see big changes in consumer behavior. So, you know, significant changes in consumer behavior. We see significant changes in technology. We see, you know, commensurate with that, significant changes in business models. And then finally, the fourth and perhaps the broadest one is significant changes in society. And when you actually put these four kinds of changes together, consumer behavior, technology, business model, and societal change, is when I think you start to see those big seismic macro shifts. And I think if I were to use this frame and give you a couple of examples of some things that I think, you know, have changed and will change, you know, and stay. And then, you know, you could start to see how they interrelate, right? So if I just look at consumer behavior, I'll just take one industry and one example. Consumer behavior for me, you know, is going to fundamentally change from the perspective that we have all come to recognize that financial services, fundamentally of any kind, buying a house, you know, getting credit, you know, having access to bank accounts, equities trading, is fundamentally a digital product or service. There is absolutely no reason to have so much physical infrastructure in the form of retail, banks, and lots of this infrastructure around something that as a product is fundamentally digital. So I think this idea ofto one of our clients, which was a grocery business, or deliver 2.5 meals through ride-sharing apps, or support 2 million small businesses to ship their goods to clients, or 9 million patients with better access to health care. And these are just all examples. Financial services solutions to more than 100 million people to kind of navigate COVID, helping governments, basically 330,000 families avoid eviction through government platforms, through rental assistance. In the energy space, our solution is protecting over 10 million acres of nature. And as you start to kind of talk to people about this, you realize, wow, we are really able to make a huge difference in the world sitting in my living room or your office or wherever we are as people because the collective impact we're doing starts to become more visible. And I felt like we used to do that, and I used to do that before, but I think over the last couple of years, it's been incredibly critical because what you're trying to do is remind everybody that we are all part of a bigger whole and create the connection between what they do every day to this bigger idea. And so I'd say those are probably some of the things I think that I consciously try to be thoughtful about. Communication is another one, just amplifying and increasing the level of communication. So I always joke with people, I've never met more people than when I've just been at home over the last couple of years, just because I've met more people virtually, but I've met more of them because it's been a conscious feature of how I've tried to kind of lead.
To engage, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think we've heard that the importance of one-on-ones in this hybrid environment, you kind of have to take those quite seriously because it's difficult to assess what other people are going through via the screen. So you've got to take the time to engage with people authentically in a genuine fashion. I also really like what you described in terms of the, I would call it ecosystem value. So this notion that we're all in the same storm. I often talk about the notion of, as any player in this storm, as you describe it, it's not so much how well you navigate yourself or how well you play. I talk about playing in the playground. Do you play well by yourself or do you play with others in this playground? And the difference moving forward is the latter. How well you play with others is how you're going to really define that ecosystem value. And then in terms of the connection between impact, so what you do and the impact at a broader level, I think what you described is exactly in line with what is expected of leaders in the sense that you paint the picture and you give everyone a sense of what role they play in that picture, and then they jump on board because they can see that that picture contributes to a bigger meaning, especially as in our industry, technology creates or the link between technology and that meaning becomes a lot closer. It could be saving lives. It could be keeping businesses afloat, a range of different, very critical activities or value chains that need to be kept moving in the right direction. Very good. So it looks like you've weathered that storm very well, Nigel, so far.
Yeah, I mean, look, we've been very fortunate because we have a bunch of people that are extraordinarily impact-oriented, that are looking to make a difference. We've been able to create that sense of purpose and that sense of connection in what they do. And with the result, IDC covered us also. We've had a record last couple of years through what's been a very tough time, but I feel like it created the impetus for that kind of transformation that we wanted to drive in ourselves.
Sure. Is there any one function that you think had to transform the most in your organization, Nigel?
You know, it's a tough one, right? Because actually, I feel like every aspect of our organization has had to transform, right? How we do marketing and how we communicate. But if I had to pick one, right, because you always have to pick one in response to a question like that one, right? I would probably say our people strategy function. So firstly, our people strategy to us was a very important idea because our founders were very close to this idea that human resources was a bad way to think about people because they're not resources, they're people. And so our function internally has always been called people success. So our people success organization and the strategy of our people success organization because of the pace at which they have to respond not only to the pandemic from a logistical perspective, but also taking care of health and well-being, thinking about how to actually, you know, essentially nurture and look after what is our greatest asset as a people business. You know, we're not a product company. We don't have things out there in the world people buy. What people buy is the value our people bring. So for us, our greatest asset is our people and our people success function really had to transform to think about how do you in this new world ensure that the experience people are having, you know, is allowing them to thrive. And, you know, it's in a year when we hired records number of people, you know, there have been more people hired in the last year than perhaps the last few years for us because our growth rate continues to grow exponentially. And that meant, you know, thousands and thousands of people who joined the company in an entirely remote context who went through, you know, their first, you know, performance, you know, cycle, their first bonus cycle, their first promotion cycle, you know, their first career management conversations, all of those things in an entirely remote context. And so, you know, I'd say if you'd said to me, you know, even as somebody who leads a business focused on transformation that we would have to do all of that and get to grips with, you know, the personal family situation of people suffering from COVID where we needed to provide assistance or indeed as the case is now from a geopolitical, you know, crisis perspective, I'd say that function for one has really, you know, stepped up to what's been an expectation that I think even the most ambitious of firms probably wouldn't have placed on it.
Very interesting. Yeah, I think it's, but again, it's that combination between leveraging technologies to get to scale around people success. I like that concept of people success because it's not just, obviously moving from HR to people, you were ahead of the game on that front, but because I think every organization needs to do that regardless of your people oriented or not, you know, in terms of your business. But yeah, the focus on people success because then you basically put them at the forefront of the company's success and that drives the outcomes.
And that function in particular, right, has always been measured on are you making people successful or not, right? And I think they were never more tested than how do you get to grips with people who are ill, you know, for prolonged periods of time in countries around the world where their families need support, where their team members need support. And so making those people successful in that context became exponentially more complex. And like you said, technology had a huge role to play in even how they did things, you know, starting to use data and analytics and engagement metrics that perhaps we might not have actually, you know, thought about in a kind of more singular ecosystem in a way that, you know, we are literally in each other's homes every day, you know, in a way that you just would never have imagined a few years ago.
Yeah, but you're bringing people out of that environment and creating physical connection with those people that are enabling them to, you know, to kind of do all of that, you know, because, yeah, it's just the recognition of exactly that. Yeah, but so I think a way of framing what you talked about there in terms of the data is the engagement data. It's not just structured data, it's how teams, customers are engaging with you and looking at the real-time notions associated with that.
And it's actionable, right, and it's actionable. So you do something about it, because so often, you know, you get so much data, and if you don't do anything with the data, it's completely, so how do you actually design the organization to be responsive to that data?
Yeah, very interesting. So, and then just on that point on metrics, have you put any new metrics in place, not just for your people success or your people strategy, but across the business?
Yeah, I mean, you know, we rewired, you know, so many metrics across our business, right, because what we were, I think what we were looking to do is, so for example, right, if you and I were working in an office together and I, you know, kind of passed by you, the amount of information I'm just gleaning in that quick one-minute interaction might range from how you're feeling to how your family is, to what projects are you assigned to and are you doing the right kind of work to how you're feeling about the kind of work you're creating and how the work that you are doing is being perceived by our clients. Any number of those things would be gleaned from that one conversation, right? So now if you start to think about how you codify that in a way that allows you to glean those same set of proxy metrics, you know, you have to start to think about that entire journey and decompose every one of those things to say, well, where am I getting, you know, information about whether a team feels like it's doing well or not? So from simple, you know, very large scale use of, you know, smileys, right, which typically were used in customer feedback, like when you wake up this morning, you hit a smiley, are you, you know, a broad smile, are you neutral, are you unhappy or sadall of its, you know, I guess all of its consumer and, you know, and citizens' desires in a world that is increasingly digital, right? When you look at the fields of medical diagnostics, you know, we're working with, you know, medical facilities looking at cancer diagnosis using AI. Just, you know, looking at like building entirely digital cities and in the context of building these entire digital cities, starting to think about everything from traffic patterns to hospital admissions and the relationship between those things if an entire city had, you know, a functioning neural network, right? And you start to think about the possibilities there and I think it provides huge, huge optimism for what we could do through the work we're doing.
Very good. Now, I think I agree with you that we're at this inflection point in terms of the next phase and a lot of things coming together. It comes back to what you described around consumer technology, the business model and broader society. And I think that that is, we call it the era of multiplied innovation. So we're entering that, you know, where these things start to come together, the intersection points drive innovation. And I'm thrilled to hear that because the fact that it gives you inspiration means that you're gonna be kept busy at least for the next few years because there's plenty to do along those lines.
One sentence, your favorite part of the day. What is your favorite part of the day? If you think about your day in the life of Nigel Vaz, what is the part of the day that you look forward to from a work perspective? Not your weekends, we'll leave that out of the equation.
Yeah, I'd say from a work perspective, my favorite part of the day is anytime I'm engaging with a client or people on solving a problem. So for me, the most interesting thing is dealing with a complex problem. Like, you know, just earlier today, we were in a conversation with one of our clients where we're really imagining how you set up a city from whether you establish common law precepts based on AI to start the basis of the way judgments are done by magistrates today using technology to do that, right? For me, like that's the most fascinating problem space because I thrive in that environment. And so for me, whenever I have the opportunity to do that, I talk about conversations that give me energy and sometimes that take energy away. And that's certainly one that creates energy for me.
Complex, complex business solving, top of the list. Very good. All right, we're running a bit out of time here, Nigel. So two more questions. One is, let's look into the future a little bit. Obviously from an IDC standpoint, we try and do this fairly regularly, predict what's coming around the corner. But what do you think is around the corner for your industry or for your customers, the broader business that the CEOs that you engage with? What are the things that you think are worthwhile keeping an eye on?
Yeah, and as you talked about it, right, I really liked that multiplication idea that you talked about, because we talk about it as the platform effect. So I think we're starting to see a world now where computing power and the cost of computing power and storage is coming down. We're starting to see a world where real algorithmic analysis is able to be crunched in a much, much faster time period. We're seeing the ability to instrument every aspect of a machine to kind of observe data, including people. When you just think about health and diagnosis of health, every aspect of us as people is now starting to get instrumented, right? We have more data coming out of what's happening in our bodies than we've ever had before. And so I feel like the biggest trend out there for me is not talking specifically about AI or AR or VR or big data, but it's the cumulative effect of these technologies all occurring at the same time. And I think it was a little bit like we saw in the, the internet had existed for a long period of time before Sir Tim Berners-Lee came up with the World Wide Web. But the combination of the World Wide Web, the internet's TCPIP protocol and computing power all coming at the same time created this explosive effect of the internet becoming consumer tool. And I feel like we are kind of at that moment again, almost with the advent of what's happening with Web3 and just how the world looks.
And Metaverse as well. But that's the next round of conversations. It sounds like we could talk for a long time. I look forward to that. Okay, last question. The one sentence test. So this is, if you were, we had a virtual room of all the CEOs that we've been talking to over the last 18 months, what's the one recommendation, one sentence that you would make to them as a fellow CEO in the industry?
Technology has gone from being important to existential. It's as simple as that. And you have to reflect on how your business is going to leverage it.