ALISON WALDEN: Hello everyone. My name is Alison Walden, I'm a Senior Director of Technology at Publicis Sapient and the host of our accessible design and technology panel for IDPD Week. We have almost an hour and a half for our discussion today, and I just want to go through some housekeeping items upfront. American Sign Language is available from Roopa, who is listed as one of our panellists, so find Roopa on the screen to take advantage of that. We also have real-time captioning available; there should be a link in the chat to adjust the appearance of the captioning. Any questions on these housekeeping items, just use the Q&A button on Zoom. We are taking all questions for the panellists at the end, so please use the Q&A button throughout the presentation and we will get to them after.
Before we get started, I wanted to provide a bit of background on IDPD Week. It stands for International Day of Persons with Disabilities, which this year falls on Thursday, 3rd December. At Publicis Sapient, we have organised events this week, from Monday to Thursday, to promote an understanding of both visible and non-visible disability issues and to mobilise support for the dignity, rights, and well-being of individuals with disabilities. Throughout the week, we will be joined by colleagues and clients from all over the world to illuminate disability issues and raise awareness, because everyone should be enabled at work. We are proud to be celebrating IDPD Week, and we hope you will participate each day and take away some key learnings and new insights to help make every environment you are part of more accessible and inclusive.
Now, I'm very happy to introduce our esteemed panellists. Thank you all for joining us today for what I'm sure will be an insightful conversation. We have Kendall Akhurst, a Product Owner from Lloyds Banking Group; Matt Roberts, Lead Digital Designer and User Experience Manager at Sightsavers; Manish Agrawal, Senior PM Accessibility at Microsoft and former Publicis Sapient employee; and Shadi Abou Zahra, Accessibility Strategy and Technology Specialist from the W3C. Welcome to all of you. Let's jump right in and get started.
ALISON WALDEN: As experts in this space, can you each take a moment to articulate for people on the call, who might be new to the idea of web accessibility, why it's so important for organisations to create accessible experiences? Both for internal applications and external applications for the general public.
MANISH AGRAWAL: At Microsoft, we have four main reasons for building accessible products. First, our mission: to empower every person and every organisation on the planet to achieve more. "Every person" includes people with disabilities. Second, the impact: more than a billion people in the world live with disabilities. This is not just a static demographic—everyone becomes part of this group at some point in their life. People with disabilities face disproportionate hardship in terms of employability and economic opportunity. Making our products more accessible increases our market and has a significant economic impact. Third, legislation: compliance with laws and regulations is important, even if it's not the most inspiring reason. Finally, innovation: when we build products that are inclusive and consider the needs of people with disabilities upfront, we end up with a much more compelling and versatile product. Constraints in the design process lead to better outcomes for everyone.
ALISON WALDEN: Thank you, Manish. Shadi, would you like to add?
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: Manish has covered a lot, but I want to emphasise the "electronic curb cut" effect—the benefits of accessibility for everyone. While 15-20% of the population may require accessibility features, up to two-thirds benefit from them. Microsoft even started calling accessibility features "ease of use." Think of elevators or automatic door openers—these started as assistive technologies but now benefit everyone. People with disabilities are often early adopters of new technologies, and designing for the fringes of the bell curve makes products more robust and usable for all. Also, as we age, we all develop limitations, so accessibility is ultimately for everyone, not just others.
ALISON WALDEN: Thank you, Shadi. Matt, your thoughts?
MATT ROBERTS: At Sightsavers, accessibility is at the core of what we do. Building more accessible products changes people's lives. We are data-driven and research-driven, and we need to ensure that data is collected, stored, and presented in accessible ways. This impacts everything from fieldwork to fundraising and advocacy. Making information accessible to supporters and partners is crucial for our mission and for enabling people to participate in our campaigns and support our work.
ALISON WALDEN: Kendall, anything to add?
KENDALL AKHURST: All the panellists have covered the main points. For me, it's about ensuring all our customers can access our products and services. At Lloyds Banking Group, our goal is to help people prosper, and we can't do that if we exclude a significant group. Personally, as a wheelchair user, I've seen firsthand how inaccessible things can be. It's heart-breaking to see barriers remain, even when organisations are trying to do the right thing. There's a strong business case for accessibility—why exclude valuable customers?
ALISON WALDEN: Thank you, Kendall. No organisation wants to exclude anyone, but it's important to close the gaps that make exclusion possible. Now, a broader question: The internet has been around since 1990, and software even longer. Why is accessibility of digital experiences still an issue today? Why haven't we solved it yet? What are the main barriers?
KENDALL AKHURST: The biggest reason is that organisations don't fully understand the importance of accessibility from the bottom up. While top-down support exists, middle management and backlog activities often deprioritise accessibility, seeing it as relevant to only a small group. In reality, universal access benefits everyone. There's also a significant market opportunity, especially with an ageing population. Regulation is helping, but there's still a long way to go.
MATT ROBERTS: A key issue is the definition of "accessibility" and whose responsibility it is. It's often seen as the job of the design team, but it's really a shared responsibility. Personal experience—I'm colour blind and was hard of hearing as a child—shows how important it is to have open conversations about needs. Simple changes, like not using red for corrections, can make a big difference. Universal solutions help everyone.
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: There are societal and educational barriers. Societally, there's a lack of understanding and connection between people with and without disabilities. Education is also lacking—many developers, designers, and project managers never learn about accessibility, or worse, learn incorrect practices. Accessibility needs to be embedded in education from an early stage, just like security and privacy.
MANISH AGRAWAL: I agree with Shadi. Most people never learn about accessibility in their education, so there's a lack of awareness and skills. Accessibility is often treated as a compliance checkbox at the end of a project, rather than being integrated from the start. Legislation is lacking in many parts of the world, especially in the developing world, and even where it exists, it often doesn't cover enterprise environments.
ALISON WALDEN: Thank you all. That was a great introduction to the topic. Let's move on to what you've each been doing in your organisations.
ALISON WALDEN: Kendall, as a product owner at Lloyds Banking Group, how are you ensuring accessibility is incorporated into your products and services?
KENDALL AKHURST: We focus on accessibility from the discovery stage, breaking work into smaller pieces and addressing accessibility early in the process. We use strategic platforms that have been tested for accessibility, and we engage external non-profits to challenge and test our sites. We also use AI-based testing, but the real test is when customers use the product. We do as much customer testing as possible and bring in other organisations to keep us honest. We also take a mobile-first approach, ensuring accessibility on the smallest devices first. Over time, accessibility has become embedded in our processes, rather than something extra we have to focus on each sprint.
ALISON WALDEN: Has embedding accessibility added significant time to your product development?
KENDALL AKHURST: With larger releases, not really. Testing has always been a challenge, but once accessibility is part of your framework, it doesn't add much time. It's harder if you don't do it often, but with repetition, it becomes part of your process. The key is to address accessibility from the beginning—if you leave it until the end, it's often too late to make necessary changes.
ALISON WALDEN: Thank you, Kendall. Matt, as a member of the British Interactive Media Association Inclusive Design Council, how are you helping organisations design with everyone in mind?
MATT ROBERTS: BIMA is a community of businesses, charities, and academia across the UK, with councils focusing on areas like sustainability, diversity, and inclusion. The Inclusive Design Council launched in March and brings together people from various organisations. Our first success was getting BIMA to recognise inclusive design as a key topic. We ran a masterclass aimed at all levels of experience, ensuring no one was left behind. The challenge is ensuring the council is representative enough, both in terms of organisations and lived experience. We're working to invite more people with lived experience to share their stories and educate others. We're also developing toolkits to help organisations become more accessible.
ALISON WALDEN: What works well to engage people new to accessibility?
MATT ROBERTS: Keep the message simple and relatable. Personal stories, like my experience with colour blindness, help people understand the impact. With remote working, ensuring captions are available on calls is a simple way to include more people. Making accessibility part of everyday conversation helps people see its importance.
ALISON WALDEN: Manish, can you tell us about Microsoft's accessibility evolution model?
MANISH AGRAWAL: The accessibility evolution model is a capability monitor for accessibility. It provides a structured way to measure progress across areas like vision and strategy, risk and compliance, and the development lifecycle. The model has five stages: initial, repeatable, defined, managed, and optimised. Each division at Microsoft can measure its progress, and because everyone uses the same structure, we can collate information at the enterprise level. This helps identify where to focus strategic investments in accessibility. I believe the model is available on Microsoft.com, but I can confirm and share the link.
ALISON WALDEN: Shadi, at W3C, you've produced many web accessibility perspective videos. What structures do organisations need to benefit from your advice, and who should be learning from these resources?
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: Everyone should be learning about accessibility. Our audience is broad, from executives and managers to developers, designers, and researchers. The web has become more complex, with many specialised roles, all of which need accessibility knowledge. Our perspective videos are short and designed for easy sharing, making accessibility more human and relatable. We also provide more detailed tutorials and curricula for different roles. We're developing role-based curricula for trainers, educators, and companies to use in mainstream IT teaching.
ALISON WALDEN: Is there a way to keep up with the timeline for new resources?
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: Yes, you can follow our work at W3.org/WAI. There are working groups and project timelines available. All our work is open and resources are provided freely. We welcome involvement from anyone interested.
ALISON WALDEN: Many people are interested in emerging technologies that will improve accessibility in the next decade. Manish, can you start us off?
MANISH AGRAWAL: The most important technologies for accessibility are in artificial intelligence and machine learning. Applications like Seeing AI can read text, describe scenes, and provide information about products using a phone camera. Mainstream applications like PowerPoint and Teams now have real-time captions and subtitles. These AI-driven features solve problems we couldn't address even five years ago.
ALISON WALDEN: For those unfamiliar, can you briefly explain Seeing AI?
MANISH AGRAWAL: Seeing AI is an app that helps blind people make sense of their environment. It can read text, scan documents, describe scenes, identify people and their expressions, and provide information about products via barcodes. It's a very handy tool.
MATT ROBERTS: Seeing AI is a brilliant app, and it's getting better with every release. At Sightsavers, we're looking at AI, but it's early days. Personally, I'm fascinated by biometric technologies like face ID and fingerprint scanning. Remembering dozens of passwords is overwhelming, and these technologies make access easier and more secure for everyone.
KENDALL AKHURST: At Lloyds, we're also looking at technologies that make customers' lives easier, like fingerprint login and voice assistants such as Alexa. Security is a key concern, especially in banking, but we're working to make services more accessible. We've also partnered to make British Sign Language more available to customers, and AI is helping automate some of these solutions. Internally, tools like Teams transcription have made a big difference for deaf colleagues.
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: While technology has great potential, it can also be exclusive if not designed accessibly. For example, smart home interfaces can be inaccessible, and AI can introduce bias. There are well-known examples, like self-driving car simulations failing to recognise wheelchair users. There's little data on people with disabilities, so it's crucial to address accessibility concerns early. We're looking at standardising data sets for accessibility, especially in AI and IoT, and considering privacy concerns, which are especially significant for people with disabilities.
ALISON WALDEN: How best can we address the education gap on accessibility? Any examples of where this is being done well?
MANISH AGRAWAL: The real need is to give students exposure to disability, the tools and technologies people with disabilities use, and how to build accessible products. Some courses briefly cover accessibility, but it needs to be embedded in foundational courses. Once habits are established, it's hard to change them.
KENDALL AKHURST: Keeping it simple helps. At Lloyds, we have short sessions where experts share solutions, and we run hackathons to tackle accessibility problems. These approaches help upskill the organisation and encourage collaboration.
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: Education is broad—it includes higher education and organisational training. Many organisations now have sensitivity or diversity programmes. I remember only one organisation ever asked about accessibility in a job interview. Making accessibility part of organisational expectations helps drive learning.
MANISH AGRAWAL: At the organisational level, training programmes are common, but the most effective approach is letting people see how people with disabilities use their products. When designers and engineers witness the challenges and benefits firsthand, it creates a lightbulb moment.
MATT ROBERTS: At Sightsavers, every new starter attends an inclusion workshop, regardless of role. We discuss disability, inclusion, and what it feels like to be excluded. Instilling this mindset from the start leads to better accessibility throughout the organisation.
ALISON WALDEN: A question about CAPTCHA in form submissions: CAPTCHAs are intended to increase security but often reduce accessibility. How can we balance the trade-off?
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: We have a paper on alternatives to CAPTCHA. CAPTCHAs are inherently problematic, not just for people with disabilities but for many users. There are alternative mechanisms, and if you must use a CAPTCHA, some are less intrusive than others. Don't frame it as security versus accessibility—think about the overall user experience and impact.
MANISH AGRAWAL: At Microsoft, we're moving towards zero-password environments, eliminating the need for CAPTCHAs. CAPTCHAs can be defeated by machine learning, undermining their purpose. If you must use them, provide multiple options (audio, math questions, etc.), but there is no perfect solution.
KENDALL AKHURST: There are other solutions, like bot managers and better form design, that can reduce the need for CAPTCHAs. Good design and customer experience should come first; CAPTCHAs should be a last resort.
ALISON WALDEN: Thank you, everyone. This has been an incredibly interesting conversation. Thank you for sharing how you've fostered accessible design and technology in your organisations. Your challenges, successes, and insights will help all of us. In today's world, as people become increasingly reliant on digital tools, it's more critical than ever to ensure that all content and services are accessible. Thank you for joining us during IDPD Week at Publicis Sapient.
We have more events this week and look forward to seeing you again in 2021. Thank you to everyone who joined the call and asked questions.
SHADI ABOU ZAHRA: Thank you, I enjoyed that.
KENDALL AKHURST: Thanks very much, guys.